Ok here’s a final table hand history from a small stakes online tournament. Roughly 1k runners and we’ve just hit the 9 handed final table.
I have 20x and am 8/9. Smallest stack had 6.5x in the CO, three other stacks from 20-25x that just cover me. First hand of the FT I look down at AKo UTG. Big stack is in the BB with over 80x.
I assumed open raising for 2.3x is right? But I look at the stack sizes, know I’m in a pretty heavy ICM spot, knowing jamming can’t be *too* bad and just panic open rip. My question is less is this right, I assume it’s not, and more at what stack size does it become right? And I guess contingently where does the ev advantage of a normal open over the oversized rip come from.
For cEV as well, but especially at final tables you don't like making big shoves UTG. You don't start shoving here until you're sub 15bbs and even that is a pretty specific range. You'd rather raise and see what unfolds behind you. The problem is that it's very hard for you to construct a reasonable range here, if it's exactly AKo then you get called by pocket pairs, if you add some bluffs in like a KQs/KJs/ATs/TT type hands then you start shoving 20bbs UTG a too often. Now realistically AKo in a random big field online tourney, you're probably getting 3bet-folds from the big stacks less often than you would in an ICM agent and you're also probably not worried about the CL putting you on AK and calling a shove with 88, while also folding AQs.
That being said I think the main heuristic here is shoving 8x pot into 8 people is rarely the best play in any form of poker. If I had to pick a hand to shove here, it would be AKo, but I would still rather raise non-ai.
It’s funny you mention the lack of 3-bet folds at a random table because that was exactly the brain worm that burrowed into me and I got stuck on in the moment.
Ya, you're also probably getting flatted a lot more often by KQo type hands, which, I'm sure is good in the long run, but doesn't feel that way when you whiff the flop.
Well I am flabbergasted by the circumstance that noone else uses the chance to ask you a free question, but I guess I ask enough questions in other POTD's so I just thank you for beeing that generous!
Ok here’s a final table hand history from a small stakes online tournament. Roughly 1k runners and we’ve just hit the 9 handed final table.
I have 20x and am 8/9. Smallest stack had 6.5x in the CO, three other stacks from 20-25x that just cover me. First hand of the FT I look down at AKo UTG. Big stack is in the BB with over 80x.
I assumed open raising for 2.3x is right? But I look at the stack sizes, know I’m in a pretty heavy ICM spot, knowing jamming can’t be *too* bad and just panic open rip. My question is less is this right, I assume it’s not, and more at what stack size does it become right? And I guess contingently where does the ev advantage of a normal open over the oversized rip come from.
For cEV as well, but especially at final tables you don't like making big shoves UTG. You don't start shoving here until you're sub 15bbs and even that is a pretty specific range. You'd rather raise and see what unfolds behind you. The problem is that it's very hard for you to construct a reasonable range here, if it's exactly AKo then you get called by pocket pairs, if you add some bluffs in like a KQs/KJs/ATs/TT type hands then you start shoving 20bbs UTG a too often. Now realistically AKo in a random big field online tourney, you're probably getting 3bet-folds from the big stacks less often than you would in an ICM agent and you're also probably not worried about the CL putting you on AK and calling a shove with 88, while also folding AQs.
That being said I think the main heuristic here is shoving 8x pot into 8 people is rarely the best play in any form of poker. If I had to pick a hand to shove here, it would be AKo, but I would still rather raise non-ai.
It’s funny you mention the lack of 3-bet folds at a random table because that was exactly the brain worm that burrowed into me and I got stuck on in the moment.
Ya, you're also probably getting flatted a lot more often by KQo type hands, which, I'm sure is good in the long run, but doesn't feel that way when you whiff the flop.
Well I am flabbergasted by the circumstance that noone else uses the chance to ask you a free question, but I guess I ask enough questions in other POTD's so I just thank you for beeing that generous!