Also, even apart from ICM, playing as a very short-stack is inherently extremely +CEV. This is one of the cases where edge-passing makes a lot of sense as you'll inevitably get bigger and bigger edges later on, and winning an all-in will remove this condition.
I'd definitely want to shove tighter than the solver absent other considerations, so shoving 5 pips loose is an extraordinary mistake for a player of this level, but I don't even have words for how mind-bogglingly poor the eventual fold is. She's putting 1 BB to win about 25BBs. I wonder how -EV this call would be if Chidwick was forced to call all-in, but surely it can't be very much so, and it might even be substantially +EV. With Chidwick not forced in, there's no choice at all.
This is one of the worst hands I've seen, both by % of prize-pool value of the mistake as well as by how obvious it is that these are not correct plays.
But equally I know she's many levels above me overall, so I shudder to think how bad my own worst plays are and how much EV those torch. These sorts of things are really good to highlight just how much room there is for error even at elite levels.
This is a reason why I encourage non-experts from making these sorts of plays. It's just so easy to talk yourself into making a gigantic mistake and the EV gain is minimal.
Yea when I saw this, I felt she was in the wrong position to do this... If she is in the BTN and Stevie raises in the CO then she can shove and leave herself 1bb behind because if the BB shoves and Stevie calls, she can decide to fold and ladder. But here Stevie is still to act before her and will often fold to a shove (his range consist of a lot weaker hands of AQ that were calling 8bbs but not a shove). You leave yourself 1 chip behind when you can see the full action and then make a decision, no?
This question is too complicated to give a simple yes or no answer to. It depends. Sometimes I ~half stack, sometimes I leave one chip behind, sometimes I shove. Here is a simple example if I have 12bbs OTB the SB has 40bbs and the BB has 8bbs. There is no real reason to leave one chip behind because if there is a three way all-in you will always cover the BB, but making it 6bbs could set you up in a situation where the SB calls, the BB calls and then ends up folding postflop, which is a disaster for us.
Also, even apart from ICM, playing as a very short-stack is inherently extremely +CEV. This is one of the cases where edge-passing makes a lot of sense as you'll inevitably get bigger and bigger edges later on, and winning an all-in will remove this condition.
I'd definitely want to shove tighter than the solver absent other considerations, so shoving 5 pips loose is an extraordinary mistake for a player of this level, but I don't even have words for how mind-bogglingly poor the eventual fold is. She's putting 1 BB to win about 25BBs. I wonder how -EV this call would be if Chidwick was forced to call all-in, but surely it can't be very much so, and it might even be substantially +EV. With Chidwick not forced in, there's no choice at all.
This is one of the worst hands I've seen, both by % of prize-pool value of the mistake as well as by how obvious it is that these are not correct plays.
But equally I know she's many levels above me overall, so I shudder to think how bad my own worst plays are and how much EV those torch. These sorts of things are really good to highlight just how much room there is for error even at elite levels.
This is a reason why I encourage non-experts from making these sorts of plays. It's just so easy to talk yourself into making a gigantic mistake and the EV gain is minimal.
I think you meant discourage, but yes, I totally agree.
Yea when I saw this, I felt she was in the wrong position to do this... If she is in the BTN and Stevie raises in the CO then she can shove and leave herself 1bb behind because if the BB shoves and Stevie calls, she can decide to fold and ladder. But here Stevie is still to act before her and will often fold to a shove (his range consist of a lot weaker hands of AQ that were calling 8bbs but not a shove). You leave yourself 1 chip behind when you can see the full action and then make a decision, no?
This question is too complicated to give a simple yes or no answer to. It depends. Sometimes I ~half stack, sometimes I leave one chip behind, sometimes I shove. Here is a simple example if I have 12bbs OTB the SB has 40bbs and the BB has 8bbs. There is no real reason to leave one chip behind because if there is a three way all-in you will always cover the BB, but making it 6bbs could set you up in a situation where the SB calls, the BB calls and then ends up folding postflop, which is a disaster for us.